Also, as has been mentioned in earlier posts, there is a “start” point, so bounded at t=0 therefore finite. A rational answer to these questions is that there is something beyond the material universe — a creator, an unlimited being that shares of itself … What is beyond the universe? The Universe someday will cease to exist, the Holy Dream will end. The accelerated expansion rate of the universe is so fast that the universe grows even bigger before light beams travel back to earth. Modern religion, which is as different from traditional religion as modern science is from the ‘science’ of 500 years ago, now sees ‘God’ as the infinite (obviously incomprehensible) power behind the infinite universe, represented here by periodic Educators who tell us of closer and closer approximations of true Reality. But it could mean that space itself is not big enough to support the broadest ripples, according to Weeks. Eventually, the growth rate started to diminish and the universe entered a certain status of inertia. Ok, try this one on for size. This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. I was just thinking recently that since the universe is expanding, doesn’t that mean new “space” is being “created” all the time?! Because of this, we are missing a lot of rich and fascinating insights, as well as astonishing practical applications. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Or are there multiple parallel universes? What is it even expanding into? Weeks and his colleag… The local behaviors are composed of space/time relations and the non-local behaviors are based on the inverse: time/space relations. Therefore, it became sort of a common practice to refer to the “observable universe,” that is made of “physical matter,” when speaking of the universe, and that it is “finite.”. In fact it has been the driving force for keeping up on the latest findings in cosmology and theoretical physics. In other words, if the universe is infinite, how can it be a discrete thing that is expanding? If, on the other hand, the universe has a finite size, then it may be legitimate to claim that there is something "outside of the universe" that the universe is expanding into. And if its finite, what is beyond it(s borders)? In other words never get to “here”, as it were. [3] [57] [58] Estimates suggest that the whole universe, if finite, must be more than 250 times larger than the observable universe. The majority of scientists today believe that our universe is extremely large, but finite. There is a being whose existence is beyond the present heaven and earth. At just …, The reports are eerily similar. However, I had a search for the number of particles in the observable universe, and I can only find this figure. From our standpoint they are observationally superimposed. When I was a schoolboy in the sixties, I wanted the universe to be bounded on the surface volume of of a 4D sphere, with time as the radius vector. If the universe is finite, it is almost certainly finite but unbounded, a 4D anologue of the surface of a sphere, so it would have no edge. I like when Fraser posts these kinds of posts. But the universe has only been around for about 13.8 billion years. The only place where these could hide from the outward eyes of God is simply inside of him. If someone hands me a closed cardboard box, I can then define a “size” for the box, and also what I mean by an “inside” and an “outside”. Space couldn’t be that infinite and yet remain that empty. The easiest way to answer your question, “If the universe is finite, what would beyond of the edge of the universe be like?” would be to distinguish between universe and Cosmos: Universe = finite Cosmos = … You could measure its size with a really long ruler. This would also mean we would need to re-define the universe to include what is outside the boundary. By simple extrapolation, the Universe, specific and orderly, is a finite image in the mind of God. That’s another lovely idea, but it would need gravity to vary with time, which is pretty much doesn’t. The Universe has been expanding all this time, but that expansion rate is both finite and well-measured. with leakage of matter from our universe into other multi-universes . Yaaaaaaaaaaayyyy!!!! Universe is an all inclusive term so if theoretically there is something beyond the universe, that would also be part of the universe. I suspect spacetime is not a component of this greater reality. The problem is that, unlike a spherical universe, a flat one can be infinite — or not. See As the sphere expands, items on the surface become more distant, and the greater the distance the faster they grow apart. Hubble discovered that galaxies were pulling away from each other, a crucial proof that the universe wasn’t static, but actually constantly expanding. It is a common misconception that a finite universe must have borders. Furthermore it can only occupy a finite amount of space. If the Universe is truly infinite, if you travel outwards from Earth, eventually you will reach a place where there’s a duplicate cubic meter of space. I’ve entangled myself with this question all my life. Even the scientists can’t explain the existence of our Universe without adding more dimensions into equations… as if the creation (and evolution) of the Multiverse is a Top-Down process, not a Down-Up as if it would appear Out Of Nothing (that would be magic like in those stories with Wizards)! Once thought extinct, this cat is …, We have found some of the best Amazon exercise equipment, all at very affordable prices. This is related to the problem of defining space and time. Confused by that last, “finite and unbounded”. We, however will never cease to exist because we will transcend to the Infinite Dimension of the Eternal Memory of the Great Mind of HaShem. Something has to start where something ends, right? To move 1/4 the distance you have to move 1/8 the distance and so on. Podcast (audio): Download (Duration: 6:15 — 5.7MB), Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | Android | RSS, Podcast (video): Download (Duration: 6:37 — 78.4MB), Good except you can spin out variations – bounded or unbounded for example. Thirty years ago it was widely believed that our spatial universe is the finite 3D hypersurface of a 4D hypersphere—analogous to being the finite … It’s headache-inducing, yes, but it wouldn’t be one of the greatest themes of humanity if it weren’t. . Can one have infinity without spacetime? But even if you assume the same finite number of elementary particles throughout the entire (infinite) universe, the argument still fails, because there’s no law that requires a given configuration to repeat itself. Infinity would probably require redefinition because I suspect that our universe (and thus spacetime also) originates from a greater reality deep in the quanta or beyond. Love you guys. Even if the universe truly were finite, that still wouldn’t mean it has any real boundaries. Because of your limited ant perspective, the otherwise sphere-shaped balloon suddenly feels like a flat surface. Through extensive research, scientists concluded that the universe must have come into existence approximately 13.8 billion years ago. Beyond our universe, these might be nothingness and other universes obeyi g their own laws. So the answer to the question “if the universe is finite, what lies beyond” is that there is nothing beyond the universe because the universe represents everything, including things “outside” of it. Sure, it might wrap back on itself in a mindbending shape, like a of monster donut or nerdecahedron, but if our Universe is infinite, all bets are off. Beyond the yellow circle is an even larger (imaginary) one containing 4.7 trillion galaxies, the maximum portion of the Universe that will be accessible to us in the far future. If our Universe consists of our Known stars or that which we can see, or what seems to be part of our Big Bang, then it is finite. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! And although most of them are scratching their heads trying to figure out a reason, most of them find dark energy as the “culprit.” What are we talking ahead? And if the Universe is finite, well, it's finite. On the other hand the Cosmos, which I prefer to think of as the dark of space is probably infinite. My question is, as I observe all that I can, I see no perfect replication. We would see the constant distortions of matter if the laws were different. The universe is probably a finite unbounded space. Join us at patreon.com/universetoday. Infinite. It will go on forever even after God decided the human race is to end. Infinity may exist in a greater reality that has given rise to our universe. But still, if the universe is finite, then it probably has an edge and an “outside” — what those things would be like, however, we don’t really know. That question is answered not by looking up, but looking down. Ancient Greeks were the first to start asking questions as they observed the night sky. The initial answer to whether the universe is infinite or finite is a resounding… we don’t know. I think all that makes our universe must be limited and if you could go far enough there is probably another universe and many others out there in their own stage of development. He is timeless, spaceless, infinite and immaterial. Doesn’t seem likely. The expansion of the Universe has carried them from 47.5 billion light years away. They say that children are the future. But wait, if it turns out that the universe IS infinite after all, doesn’t that make this whole expansion thing even more confusing? We have to accept the definition of what the universe is. Time itself can be finite. In our hu-man words, this means 13.8 billion light-years in all directions, the Universe doesn’t repeat. Then I will assume that not one bit of matter that was thrown out by the Big Bang will escape it. Sometimes I think we stretch out our minds to contemplate that which is beyond our comprehension or ability to prove, because we don’t want to dwell on our limitations. by Michael Broussard | Jan 9, 2017 | Curious News. The current, widely accepted model for cosmology is $\lambda$-CDM.The universe appears (exactly) flat, and for simplicity the universe is infinite. Actually, it’s probably still not enough pencils. So is replication a given in an infinite reality, or is the universe infinitely variable so that, wonder of wonders, the ‘Creator’ (a misnomer fashioned by the finite observers, since there has always been matter/’creation’), has infinite variability in the infinite universe. You are probably using the following probabilistic argument: If all configurations are equally likely then the probability of a given configuration never repeating itself is zero. Edwin Hubble (famous astronomer) discover that all the galaxies are receeding from us. Scientists have observed that the universe is doing the exact opposite of slowing its growth rate down – it’s actually accelerating! In the 1800s, astronomer Heinrich Olbers claimed that the universe couldn’t be anything but finite. Many finite mathematical spaces, e.g., a disc, have an edge or boundary. A flat universe agrees with both observation and theory, so the idea now sits at the heart of modern cosmology. Wikipedia has a fair explanation (google “observable universe”) but then wanders about in a variety of wild theories. To move a distance you first have to move 1/2 that distance. Then I said it all depends on whether the Universe is finite or infinite. The wider, ... As one commentator has remarked, up to this time the idea of the expansion of the universe “was absolutely beyond comprehension. For example consider a spherical object. [ouch my head already :-)] Cue the door analogy, which we’ll be chasing forever. The closest thing to randomness that I observe are the actions of living organisms. i.e. After many centuries of thought by some of the best minds, humanity has still not arrived at conclusive answers to these questions. I hate to make a guess based on : “(A) is the right choice because (B) is too silly” …but in this case, B is too friken silly. I believe that the “Universe” as we know it or is defined by us as the extent of our Bounded Big Bang, is finite, whereas the Cosmos is the immense Darkness that is Space. Our universe is not the universe — there might be others. It’s basically similar to the feeling of walking up to a door and having it distance itself constantly. If we try to define finite bounds for the “universe”, the very definition of a bound means there is something outside of the boundary, otherwise there would be no boundary. In that case a given cubic meter of space may indeed be unique because once you go far enough you stop finding similar particles so you “miss your chance” of finding a duplicate. It is dynamic (unlike the static Aether of old) but non-directional (“non-local”) and cannot be detected by a vector dependent experiment like that of Michelson-Morley. And if the Universe is finite, well, it’s finite. To move 1/2 the distance you have to move 1/4 the distance. You could also follow up statements like that with all kinds of crass shenanigans. If the seeds of the Galaxies were created prior to the Big Bang(s) in the Hyperspace then the seeds of our Civilization were created there too…. We will probably never know. I think that whether we consider the “Universe” infinite or finite is dependent on what we define as the Universe. A finite universe has a finite size that can be measured; this would be the case in a closed spherical universe. Think of the universe as the surface of a sphere. But out there in the far reaches of infinite space, I suspect that other “Universes” do exist. One fact that is hard to forget is the one that suggests how the resources of our universe are finite. Is it finite or is it infinite? To make a simplistic analogy, according to the Big Bang theory we are like ants looking out across the surface of a deflating balloon: the further we look the more deflated it becomes. A finite universe has a finite size that can be measured; this would be the case in a closed spherical universe. As a result the overall gravitational force would cause matter to confine to a finite distribution. We can only see those parts from which light has had time to reach us since the beginning of the universe - which means we can (in theory) see a spherical universe with radius of about 47 billion light years. If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? But the universe has only been around for about 13.8 billion years. So as I had said before, the universe cannot have a different laws at the local scale, different from that on the large scale. Posted by 2 hours ago. It can last for an incredibly long time, no pun intended. Tony Padilla from Numberphile has estimated that number to be 10 to the power of 10 to the power of 70. For starters, the fact that we know the observable universe to be 93 billion light-years across is astonishing — that’s a great story in itself, and you can read about it extensively here — but how do we know it? One thing that vexes my finite mind is trying to imagine exactly what is meant by the “observable universe” versus the “visible universe”. Parralel universe, and with the infinite universe theory it just goes on. Galaxies “appear” to be moving further apart, but not because of a “big bang.”. Your argument is quite wrong, the assumptions are not enough to justify such a strong conclusion (“eventually you will reach a place where there’s a duplicate cubic meter of space”). Best Home Exercise Equipment: Top 10 Secret Fitness Weapons, How ‘Alien Mummy’ May Shed Light on Genetic Disorders, Teen Saves 17 in Hurricane Harvey Flooding, Wins Congressional Medal of Honor, Labrador Retrievers are Still #1, But they Have Some Pretty Surprising Competition, Greatest Weather Forecast EVER! Close. He was kind, made friends …. Of course they have, you fragile mortal meat man/woman! So the question is “is our physical universe of matter and energy finite with empty space going on forever around it?” Or does our universe contain an infinite amount of matter? I hope the universe is infinite otherwise humans would be limited in possibilities. Or does “space” only exist inside the universe, and not beyond? According to Stephen Hawking, it’s completely ridiculous to even ask this. What I’ve learned so far is that with every advance we can only marvel at how much we have yet to learn. We don’t even need multiverses to find them. Why 8 billion years ago the speed of the expansion of the Universe was less than it is now? In another episode of Guide to Space, we talked: “how big is our Universe”. God created the universe but it isn’t infinite. If there really is an edge to the universe and we’d manage to send a ship beyond the universe at that point, what would we find on the other side? It is impossible to know what, if anything, existed before our universe. How could people who are mere finite collections of atoms in motion ever conceive of, and then explore, an infinity like pi? Rather, if the universe is finite, it’s most likely ‘edgeless’. [The feedback “problem” of LQG is resolved if you allow a Fibonacci Tree expansion of the level of dimensionality at each crunch/bang event, starting from a single quantum event.] The wrap-around does exist. There is a space known as the “observable universe” which is everything that we’ve managed to explore and observe so far. Posted by 2 hours ago. Parralel universe, and with the infinite universe theory it just goes on. Our Sun, once it spends all the hydrogen will turn into a red giant and grow so big its size will reach Earth and beyond. Possibly an infinite number of duplicate observable universes. It would be interesting, to say the least, to see what the Universe looks like from THAT perspective. The non-local one is not localized in space and so would appear as a uniform homogeneous background of radiation and particles. Humanity has a long histoire of trying to figure out the great mysteries of the universe. Radio signals die. It could just be down to chance. But it is also centerless and edgeless. Spaces that have an edge are difficult to treat, both conceptually and mathematically. If we are going to discuss boundaries, give some thought to including “Universe boundary in Einstein 1931 same as Lemaître 1927” (the issue was brought up by @weasle, but my response was not published. 4 minutes ago. Both possibilities have mind-bending implications. Additionally, the thinking now seems to be that the Universe is both centerless and edgeless. Doesn’t that prove to be a contradiction? I’m back to shed my cone of shame and talk big universe. At the same time is true that there is nothing beyond the end of the universe. Many people think that it does not make sense for the universe to have a limit in “spatial size,” some think it is flat, some think it is spherical, and so on and so forth, but no one knows for sure. But, what are the most popular breeds in the country, and …, Carden Corts is an internet sensation with this perfect weather-man video. I guess isn’t what is beyond the universe the fourth or fifth dimension? Consider your example above, “if you travel outwards from Earth, eventually you will reach a place where there’s a duplicate …”, the distance travelled is measurable (albeit mind numbingly vast) and therefore finite, the “duplicate of you”, can’t be an exact duplicate, because if it were, it wouldn’t be where you found it, it would already be at a distance from where you are then, equal to the distance of there to where you started from, equally failing to find it’s “first” (your second) duplicate for the same reason. To begin with, you need the additional hypothesis that *all* matter in such infinite universe is made from a *finite* set of elementary particles. A lot more universe exists beyond what we are able to observe. The skies go dark. Read ahead. Consider this. In many ways, the possibility of it being infinite or finite posed some great problems alike. How can the universe be 93 billion light-years across if it is only 13.8 billion years old? why would the universe want to go on forever without definition when that is not the principle operation of its components ? The universe is finite, just like the number of souls in the universe. However, because we are, by definition, stuck within the space that makes up our universe and have no way to observe anything outside of it, this ceases to be a question that can be answered scientifically. The universe may be infinite, but we can only see a finite section of it due to the finite speed of light. Divine math perhaps does not rely on our computations. If you decide to go on a journey, no matter the direction you decide to pursue, you will end up at some point in the same place you’ve started. Definitely Finite. There’s just no other better way to put it. He is timeless, spaceless, infinite and immaterial. The reason there is newborn deaths is because no being can be born without a soul, and if it is, it dies. Outside lies an empty void. Space is a part of universe when it is included as the distance between two stars or bodies. None of this is taught in the schools. I agree with the assertion that infinity does not exist within our universe. Modern astronomy has been concerned with the inside, outside, and size of the Universe, but has not defined “the box” itself. That slow bending isn’t important for moving around our lives, or solar system, or even our galaxy. Despite being finite, the Universe would not have any kind of edge. In the 19th century, Doppler tried to explain an unusual phenomenon about electromagnetic waves: if and observer moves towards or … It just goes on forever and ever and ever in all directions. http://www.universetoday.com/119297/how-do-we-know-dark-matter-exists/comment-page-1/ ), Anyway you make a good point: “What is outside the boundary?”. How can something be unbounded if it is finite. It truly is a mind boggling question that makes you go bonkers, ..ahem.. [ Does it have an edge? We hear from scientists who ponder what shape the universe has and whether it is truly infinite. We’ve been asking questions about the universe we live in since the dawn of time. I doubt randomness exists without infinity, because the yardstick of infinity would be needed to measure it against. If the universe is finite, what would beyond the edge of the universe be like? You all seem to be forgetting one principle, the God principle. Maybe we have been asking the wrong questions. is “change,” and “change” means that the universe had a “beginning” since it is expanding, hence, it is temporal, hence, it is “finite.”, Now, the problem is science CANNOT figure out if the “spatial size” of the universe is “finite” or “infinite.” It is a logical conundrum. As we grow in using more of our intellect, we will find more to understand. Even if there would be a supposed edge, whatever lies beyond it is still considered the universe. It means the universe will expand forever and galaxies will collide into each others and create new energy and galaxies. I was not referring to taking a bus with Zeno for a distance. So, in the spirit of he who smelled it, dealt it. Therefore, you have to pass an infinite number of points to reach your destination, so you never reach it. Many cosmologists now think our spatial universe is infinite. After moments like this, I prefer to douse it in some XKCD, Oatmeal and maybe some candy crush. Alternatively, there’s nothing beyond the universe because it’s simply infinite and it molds into itself in a four-dimensional space. Genetically, we now know the answers, the …, Virgil Smith was only 13, just barely a teen, when his quick thinking saved 17 lives during the wettest hurricane …, Americans are obsessed with their dogs, for good reason. 4 minutes ago. That in my own opinion is infinite. Infinite is but an excuse for the unknown. Try to picture yourself as a small ant, wandering on the surface of a balloon. A lot more universe exists beyond what we are able to observe. Alternatively, there’s nothing beyond the universe because it’s simply infinite and it molds into itself in a four-dimensional space. What we know with certainty is that the Big Bang occurred 13.8 billion years ago, meaning that is the age of the universe. the light from the galaxies were Red shifted on the spectrograph which means they moving away, if they were blue shifted it … The observable universe is still huge, but it has limits. This is just another reason to believe that the universe has expanded, even beyond our exploration capabilities. The Universe has what physicists call “local” and “non-local” behaviors. http://www.facebook.com/octavian.peagu, Simply thinking – if its finite then it has to have a boundary, what is beyond that boundary then. We may call it The Area of the Dream. So can not be finite. There are only 10 ^ 80 particles in the observable Universe, so that’s much less than the possible configurations of matter in a cubic meter. expansion, contraction, etc.) … The conclusion? The universe must be infinite. Our Sun, once it spends all the hydrogen will turn into a red giant and grow so big its size will reach Earth and beyond. That’s an “at least” figure. So, these are very good news . But an infinite universe has no size by definition. If the universe is curved, according to the new paper, it curves gently. In which case could or have other “Universes” existed or exist now. But how would we ever know? That’s what you can get when you can travel in one direction and never, ever stop. After the initial explosion, it continued to grow and to expand for a while. If we were to calculate how far a photon … Our Universe occupies only a small area of The Great Mind of HaShem. We have no idea if ours is the only universe. You could measure its size with a really long ruler. God existed before time began. Many finite mathematical spaces, e.g., a disc, have an edge or boundary. The difference between God and the universe is that God is the creator and the universe was created. His argument goes like this. The other portion is traveling away from us so fast we will never ever in human existent can see it. If we think in terms of three dimensions of distances then it has to be finite but time is not finite and can’t say how but space comes with this 4th dimension. You can't go outside of everything. —Michael Pick, New York, NY It is a truly awesome concept that the universe is expanding. The book “Terra non firma Earth” reveals the geology, and “Big Breach Universe” on the android app store takes it to the next level from where the book leaves off. Infinity does not exist, it is a word (much abused sadly) that we use to “describe” the indescribable, “define” the indefinable, and even to “Eff” the ineffable. There would also be particles with “inverse masses” moving through our reference system at (approximately) the speed of light, and also homogeneous and isotropic. : An issue that arises when one contemplates the universe at large is whether space and time are infinite or finite. I believe it is finite from the standpoint of energy-mass. . That’s because we know the universe isn’t infinitely old — we know the Big Bang occurred some 13.8 billion years ago. God existed before time began. I’d say that the Universe is Finite and the Multiverse is Infinite. Since every object, regardless of mass, is surrounded by gravitational energy, a supposed closure to the universe would be pretty disastrous. Close. Souls are always moving depending on the population of the planets in the universe. 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